7 figure Attraction Agent

NSW Agents need to know THIS to Stay Compliant | Rosy Sullivan, ACOP

• Tom Panos - Real Estate Coach & Trainer

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Rosy Sullivan, Director & Principal at the Australian Colledge of Professionals has been helping agents stay compliant for over 20 years. 

She reveals:

  1. What are the CPD requirements for this current CPD year?

  2. There's a new course requirement: ‘Underquoting and Price Misrepresentation’ is only conducted by TAFE (90 mins online)

  3. Attending training conferences (e.g. AREC) does NOT mean you've met your compliance requirements. You must attend training from a Fair Trading approved CPD Provider such as ACOP

  4. Who has to do CPD and when?


See you in class!

This information is only relevant for real estate agents in NEW SOUTH WALES. 

Tom Panos :

Rosie, how you doing.

Rosie Sullivan:

Tom.

Tom Panos :

How you going.

Rosie Sullivan:

Really well, really well.

Tom Panos :

Rosie, rosie, rosie, I don't know the week it is yet.

Tom Panos :

Rosie. Of course many of you have seen Rosie before online with me, but most of the times she's not online. She's busy in a classroom setting or travelling around the countryside helping real estate agents stay out of jail by meeting their requirements. And, rosie, I'm booked in myself. But I also, susan thought, because it has got confusing. There's been so many changes, you know, and Susan even said to me she was reading it all and she's saying, look, it is rather confusing these changes that have been made. This class one, class two, can I just for the context that we're talking today, rosie, can I just confirm, by the way, everyone, rosie is the principal of the Australian College of Professionals, which is located in Sydney, and I attended their 20-year anniversary late last year. If I can recall, you picked a beautiful venue there in. I think it was the was it the Ivy?

Rosie Sullivan:

Yeah, it was the Ivy.

Tom Panos :

It was the Ivy. You picked a beautiful venue. You had beautiful food there. Two decades you've been helping real estate people get into the industry and stay in the industry.

Rosie Sullivan:

And stay compliant and out of trouble.

Tom Panos :

Yeah.

Rosie Sullivan:

That's our aim 20 years Rosie. Yes, been doing it for a bit longer, but 21 years now doing it as the Australian College of Professionals, so yeah, Look, there is no financial, by the way, everyone, there is no financial relationship with myself and this organisation.

Tom Panos :

Yes, I'm a student there and I encourage people and I've got to tell you, Rosie, I get the online learning. But I have to say to you, even I I mean I try and avoid classrooms, because a lot of the times I'm in classrooms, you know, on the other side, right on the teaching side, so I avoid it and I always think to myself I'll just go online, but you've got some great people that have worked in the industry that are actually the teachers. The one I'm thinking of, of course, is Michael Carrolyn.

Rosie Sullivan:

Indeed, he's still there with you, I hope isn't he Absolutely Well, he's wandering off visiting grandchildren in Europe at the moment, but he'll be back next week, Okay so?

Tom Panos :

Rosie let's talk about. Can I just confirm this is today's session is mainly for New South Wales. Can I confirm it?

Rosie Sullivan:

is. It's just the CPD requirements for New South Wales. Queensland are getting mandatory CPD next year, act's already got it, western Australia's got it in a sense, and you know the other states. I guess one day they'll all have mandatory. But these are just the requirements for New South Wales.

Tom Panos :

Okay, because they've changed yet again, they change every year.

Rosie Sullivan:

Okay, because they've changed yet again. They change every year.

Tom Panos :

Okay, can you explain to me, before we kick it off, what's the difference between a Class 1 and Class 2? That's the one that keeps coming up with people before we move on to anything.

Rosie Sullivan:

Okay, really simple. Both of them are licensed, so they're both licensed agents. However, class 1, you can run an agency, you can be an independent contractor or you can be a reserve licensee in charge. So if the licensee is away, you can take their position whilst they're away and then everybody else. If you never want to run your own business, if you never want to be a licensee in charge, then you stay as a Class 2. Pretty simple.

Tom Panos :

So Class 2 allows you to be a… Fully licensed agent. A fully licensed agent. Now I had someone ask me this morning. Actually it's good that you're on here. They asked me. They said can you be a Class 2 license holder and be a contractor at a real estate office?

Rosie Sullivan:

No.

Tom Panos :

You can't. Okay, it's possible.

Rosie Sullivan:

Section 28 of the Property and Stock Act tells you that if you are running a business, you must have a Class 1 license, and if you are an independent contractor, you are running your own business within somebody else's business. Therefore, fair trading is really straight down the line on it. You're an independent contractor, you've got to have a Class 1.

Tom Panos :

Okay, that's it. Contractor, you've got to have a class one. Okay, now do both close, class one and class two. People need to do mandatory CPD points.

Rosie Sullivan:

They do. I mean we'll leave the assistant agents off to the side, because their CPD is quite different. They have to work towards getting their license. That's them done. Class one and class two they're in one bundle together. For a few years there they were separated, but they're back in as one bundle, okay. So the changes that have happened this year one the CPD year has changed. We've gone off that stupid March to March thing and we're back into financial year. Okay. So it's 1st of July through to the 30th of June, so we're currently in the CPD year. One month of it has gone.

Tom Panos :

Okay, so let's confirm. So what happened is, the old dates were March to March, off the top of my head, the 22nd of March or thereabouts 23rd of March through to the 22nd of March.

Rosie Sullivan:

That was CPD year for four years.

Tom Panos :

Okay, For four years that was correct, Okay. And then this year they've turned around and they've said it's. Did you say financial year or June 1st?

Rosie Sullivan:

Financial year. Financial year. So it's July 1st through to 30th of June.

Tom Panos :

Okay, and can I ask what if someone was an April or May person and they were in the between?

Rosie Sullivan:

We've got to get over where we used to be, tom, it's got nothing to do with when you renew your licence.

Tom Panos :

Right.

Rosie Sullivan:

Which was, you know, we got CPD in 2003 and right up to 2020, we had to have our CP done by our renewal date.

Tom Panos :

Right.

Rosie Sullivan:

So that left in 2020 and it became the March to March issue. Now it's changed again and now it's the July to June financial year.

Tom Panos :

Okay.

Rosie Sullivan:

When you renew your license. So if you're renewing your license in April or you know mine's, I always remember my license renewal was Halloween.

Rosie Sullivan:

So you know it's got nothing to do with it. It's got nothing to do with it. It's got nothing to do with when I renew, it's just about I have to do it within that year when I, when I renew, because I you can take a one year, three year or five year license you know it's cpd is no longer about when you renew, it's about the year and that's it so uh july 1.

Tom Panos :

We're now uh 40 days into the new financial year yes and uh people are doing their cpd points between uh july 1 and june 30 2025 for that financial year. How many points do class one and Class 2 people need to get?

Rosie Sullivan:

It's not about points anymore, it's about hours. So it's changed again from last year. Last year was four hours, this year it's five hours. Fair trading have been very specific this year and really detailed about the topics and what needs to be covered in those topics. So if you were in, the majority of you know your gym members and followers are salespeople.

Tom Panos :

Yes.

Rosie Sullivan:

And they have to do. There's three set topics that they need to cover in that. There's some WHS, there's some understanding, strata and selling off the you know which comes into selling off the plan and a few things there, and the new supervision guidelines. So that's a five-hour topic.

Tom Panos :

Okay, so there's five hours there, and it makes no difference if you're a principal or if you're a salesperson, it doesn't matter. Doing the same. I am going to let you know. I often do have BDMs and property managers that you know not a lot, but they look. Should they be doing the same one or not?

Rosie Sullivan:

Look. Well, they can do whichever one they choose, but we offer one specific for residential property management and one specific for residential sales. So I mean you've got to sit there for five hours whether you're doing it as a webinar or whether you're doing it in face-to-face, so it may as well be useful to what you do. So if you do residential property management, then do that course. If you do commercial sales and leasing, then do that one. So, because the trainer standing at the front will make it relevant for that topic.

Rosie Sullivan:

Okay, so that's the same topics, but examples will be different.

Tom Panos :

So that one's gone from four hours to five hours Correct, and the Australian College of Professionals have got one of those courses for five hours. Correct, and the Australian College of Professionals have got one of those courses for five hours.

Rosie Sullivan:

We've got hundreds of those courses scheduled in between now and the 30th of June next year, and whether you choose face-to-face or whether you choose interactive webinar, it's either way. If you think I'm going to take the online option, it goes from five hours to ten hours.

Tom Panos :

Right.

Rosie Sullivan:

So because that's a fair trading requirement, they're saying anybody who chooses to do it online. They don't think that that's the best way to do CPD. Therefore, they've doubled the number of hours that you have to do. Okay, and they're just other related topics.

Tom Panos :

So, Rosie, so I'm clear.

Rosie Sullivan:

I've got one extra add-on after that, but yeah so this is the first.

Tom Panos :

That's not it. That's not it, it's not it. Okay, keep going.

Rosie Sullivan:

There's another new one, and this is the bit that's confusing everybody. And you're getting calls, susan's getting calls, I'm getting. We're being inundated with calls. Every licensed agent got a letter from Fair Trading about a week and a half ago.

Tom Panos :

Yeah.

Rosie Sullivan:

And confused the daylights out of everybody, probably because not everybody fully read it, but what it said was if you, at any point in the year, undertake anything to do with residential sales, then you have to do an additional online seminar through the TAFE portal on underquoting and price representation. So it's an additional. So if you're a property manager, this isn't about what type of licence you've got, so it's not all real estate licence holders or any. It is only if you are a residential salesperson and it's only conducted by TAFE and it's through their portal. It takes. I've done it. I did it earlier this week, on Monday, and it's about an hour and a half.

Tom Panos :

It's an hour and a half and it's done by the TAFEs and Susan's put the. Url there. Thank you, Susan. Susan, while you put that URL there, I'd also put Rosie's URL to complete the five hours which is mandatory. So, essentially what you're saying, for this financial year, it's five hours plus the underquoting and price misrepresentation one and a half hour session that you need to do to complete. Is that correct?

Rosie Sullivan:

That's correct, but only if you're in residential sales. If you do commercial sales, you just do your five hours. If you do property management, just your five hours. If you're stock and station, just your five hours. But if you do anything to do with residential sales, you've got to do this extra one. It's absolutely in addition, and even if you choose online and you do your 10 hours online, it's on top of your 10 hours.

Tom Panos :

Okay, rosie, I occasionally get asked by a few people, particularly the fact that I go to Eric as ane and host, so they see me as, oh, he must know the answers. They'll say oh, tom, listen, yeah, I'm not going to do, I don't do CPD points, I went to Eric, right? It's not enough, is it?

Rosie Sullivan:

No, they cut that ability out about a year and a half ago because one you have to be an approved CPD provider by Fair Trading, which obviously we are, and on top of that we can only have a maximum of 40 people in a face-to-face class and a maximum of 25 people in an interactive webinar. So there's one or two more than 40 people at ARIC and just a couple, and so you know it doesn't fit for that and also it's not an approved CPD provider from Fair Trading.

Tom Panos :

Rosie, just roughly the people that you deal with, what percentage do you reckon do face-to-face versus what percentage do online?

Rosie Sullivan:

Look, the online went down considerably last year when Fair Trading said it had to be 10 hours.

Tom Panos :

Right.

Rosie Sullivan:

So you know it's gone down to. I reckon about 3% are doing online and then the rest of them. The breakup between face-to-face and webinar is probably about 60%, 40%, 60% doing face-to-face because we go to all the regional towns.

Tom Panos :

Oh, they don't have to come into Town Hall where you're at.

Rosie Sullivan:

No, we go everywhere. So you know, I've got a course in Castle Hill next week. I've got a course in Newcastle next week. I've got one in here next week. I've got a couple of webinars next week.

Tom Panos :

Are they open courses or they're private courses?

Rosie Sullivan:

first no, they're all public ones. We've got lots of in-house ones that we just go and do with specific companies. But yeah, no, we're all over, we're up in. I was just talking to someone about a course up in Ballina. We do Ballina, Tamworth, Dubbo, Orange, Mudgee, Aubrey Griffith, Wagga, you know.

Tom Panos :

And I also know I've got my clients rave about you, rosie, and rave about your business. I mean it's an endless list all the way from the Northern Beaches, the Novacs, all the way to Tuck Brownlee yes, on the New South Wales board. I was just talking to him yesterday doing training. They rave about you, but some of these bigger firms I've just remembered you actually put on the day if it's a very big real estate company, you know.

Rosie Sullivan:

Absolutely. We go in-house and tailor it for them.

Tom Panos :

Yeah, absolutely.

Rosie Sullivan:

And you know our examples start out of. You know, give me a file, let's have a look at a file that's causing you grief. Let's have a look at that and relate the content back to what's actually real for you. So yeah, and any of our trainers here do that Just you know, give us a file, let's make it relevant.

Tom Panos :

Now Rosie selfishly. I'm asking as an auctioneer what do they do differently now Anything? Are they brought into this?

Rosie Sullivan:

Yeah, absolutely, you've always had to do. Because you hold a real estate licence as an auctioneer, you've got to do your five hours, and because you're selling residential property, you've got to do your TAFE module as well.

Tom Panos :

Okay. Is there any other things that auctioneers have to do additionally, because on the certificates it says auctioneer as well?

Rosie Sullivan:

Yeah, but auctioneer is not a category of licence. Auctioneer is an accreditation on your licence.

Tom Panos :

Right.

Rosie Sullivan:

Therefore it's not an additional licence category. So if you're a real estate agent and a stock and station agent, yes, you have to do some extra topics and we package that up into an additional two hours. Or if you're a strata agent, that's an additional two hours. So, however, if you're just a strata agent, you've just got to do five hours. If you're just a stock and station, now you know. But if you've got more than one licence category, as many people do, it's the five hours plus an add-on Plus. If you do residential sales, it's the TAFE course as well. So there's a fair bit to get your head around. But anyone who doesn't understand that can either ring or send an email in to us, and anyone who picks up the phone can talk them through. You know, look them up on the Fair Trading site, see exactly what they've got and tell them exactly what they need to do.

Tom Panos :

So what is that phone number, Rosie?

Rosie Sullivan:

1-300-88-48-10.

Tom Panos :

1-300-88-48-10. Thank you, Susan.

Rosie Sullivan:

That's it on the screen, yeah.

Tom Panos :

Yeah, and I know that I think you run your business where everyone is multi-skilled. It's not one of these things. They all seem to know the answers there. They do?

Rosie Sullivan:

They do, and certainly around CPD they get it. They know how to look up the Fair Trading Public Register, see your name on there and go okay, these are the licences you've got, and tell you exactly what you need to do to be compliant. So they all know that.

Tom Panos :

Rosie, just off CPD before we finish off here today. Yeah, cool, fastest way for a real estate agent, fastest way for a real estate agent or for someone to get a real estate license Do you do license courses?

Rosie Sullivan:

We do the whole lot, we start from CPD yeah. Cpd. That's just an add-on really for us. Licensing and qualifications are our gig. We start by I've got a face-to-face entry-level certificate registration course running here this week.

Tom Panos :

Right.

Rosie Sullivan:

So that's the entry level. The minimum time it can take you to move from being an assistant agent to a class two is one year. The maximum you can sit on an assistant agent authority is four years, but minimum time you're looking at fastest it's one year. So they've got to do their course. They've got to get their experience. They get their work experience logbook signed off by their licensee in charge and make application for a class two license Done. They then, if they want to move on to be a class one license and actually open their own office, then if they want to move on to be a Class 1 licence and actually open their own office, they need to work under a Class 1 licence holder for a minimum of two years and complete another course, which is the Diploma of Property.

Rosie Sullivan:

So obviously, which we also run and I like to people go oh, another course. You know what the diploma course is about management. The Certificate IV to get your Class II licence is about the doing. So there's lots of scenarios and agency forms to fill in. The management level course is about concepts, so it's actually easier.

Tom Panos :

Rosie, how long does it take to do the certificate course?

Rosie Sullivan:

Well, if you we offer it online or if let's just do the comparison If you came to class, it's four days, and then so today they're in their last day of their course this week, and then they've got a take-home assessment, which you know there's a fair amount to be assessed.

Rosie Sullivan:

So you know there's another few days' worth of work in that. So, yeah, so they can get themselves in, you know, a good week's worth of work. I'm talking about a week, as in seven days, and it depends on how well they've got to go and interview a living, breathing real estate agent and get some insight there and do some projects. So, yeah, there's a little bit of work too, because you don't want them to come in and cause you problems. If you're the licensee in charge, you want them to come in and be able to hit the ground running, and then you, as a licensee in charge, can teach them the reality. We teach them the theory and what will keep them safe and keep their licensee in charge safe, and then their licensee in charge and people like yourself will teach them the skills of getting out there and being successful.

Tom Panos :

And Rosie the diploma in real estate. Yes, the format is that a online or is that face-to-face?

Rosie Sullivan:

It's mostly online. I do it sometimes, I do it in-house. I'm doing a couple at the moment in-house where we do webinars. Another company I'm doing it in-house in person. But yeah, it's really easily done online and I mean, I'm not a huge fan of it online, but it really is.

Tom Panos :

Hello.

Rosie Sullivan:

Look, it depends on how much effort you're going to put into it. Each one's going to take you a few days and there's 12 units. So you know. But you've got two years. When you get your Class 2 licence it takes you. You can't apply for your Class 1 for two years, so you know you have to hold that. So if you did one of these modules every two months, you know you have to hold that. So if you did one of these modules every two months, you know. So not putting into fact that you're working, you're licensed, which means you should be working at a pretty high level and you've got a life at some point somewhere in amongst being, you know, a real estate person. You might have a life and you know, and this is just the study. So if you did one every month, every couple of months, you're done you know.

Tom Panos :

Well, listen, I mean, a lot of people are always, you know, throwing their 20 cents worth and a lot of the times, you know, they're critical about the changes and, oh, why are we doing this? But I'm thinking about this pathway now, you know, an assisting agent, then taking time to becoming a sales agent, getting your certificate, and then it's actually. I can see it probably is a better foundation for someone at the end, because I remember I mean, I've been in real estate now for 40 years but back then, rosie, you'd turn around and you'd look at the fast path. What's the fastest way? It doesn't matter whether I learn anything what's the fastest way I can get this real estate licence and you could go off, and there was some of these you know places.

Rosie Sullivan:

Tom, they're still there. They're still there, you know, in terms of the actual effort you put in, but you come out with no learning. You come out without the ability. You want to get out there and you want to actually be able to list and sell a property or manage a property, and you want to be able to do it Well. You don't need complaints, you don't need people making claims on your commission. You need to know what you're doing. I mean, you're supposed to be a professional and behave as one and learn as one is what I would say. I mean, you know, remember back pre-2003, Tom, if you wanted a real estate license, you had to have worked in the industry for two years, done your course and then you made your application.

Tom Panos :

Yeah.

Rosie Sullivan:

And you had to get signed off. I think it was called an old 22E certificate.

Rosie Sullivan:

Yes, correct Now we're back to one year of experience. Do your course and get a work experience logbook. Look at that big round circle. We're back to where we were pre-2003. And I agree with you not a bad thing. It's always worried me from that period from 2003 to 2020, somebody could come in, get their license as quickly as they could possibly get through all the modules and walk out there and put their shingle up, run an agency and they're responsible for people's trust money. They're responsible for selling and managing people's huge assets. So I think now, with that, minimum time is three years. One year as an assistant agent, two years as a class two. Minimum from start to being able to put your shingle out. Three years.

Tom Panos :

Yeah, listen, it sounds like Rosie. It doesn't matter where you're at in your life. If you want to be in property, you've got something for them, no matter where they're at, absolutely.

Rosie Sullivan:

We cover all the angles, all the different functions, and I set this business up to focus on the individual, because no two people are the same. They bring different things to the table. So we look at what their past experience is, and everybody's an individual. So somebody might say, well, I didn't, my mate didn't have to do that. No, well, they didn't, but you don't have the same life experiences.

Tom Panos :

So, yeah, Rosie, thank you so much, absolute pleasure. I want to reconfirm the correct details for Rosie at the Australian College of Professionals. The URL is both in the comment section on Facebook and in the chat there at Zoom. In addition to that, if you're a person that likes to talk to people, 1300 888 4810. 1300 888 4810. Thank you so much.

Rosie Sullivan:

Beautiful. Thanks, tom, great to see you Good afternoon.