7 figure Attraction Agent
Tom Panos interviews leading real estate attraction agents. These agents share their strategies for writing 7 figures year after year. Simple, powerful and effective - you can apply these tips to grow your real estate business today. For more FREE tools visit: www.tompanos.com.au
7 figure Attraction Agent
The Official Guide to VPA Marketing | Marcus Chiminello, Meagan Muir, Seth Watts
- Scripts & Dialogues: Improve your ability to demonstrate the benefits of VPA and handle all types of objections.
- Strategies for High-Volume Sales: Hear from Meagan Muir on how she effectively uses VPA to help her sell 100 properties a year.
- Targeting the Prestige Market: Marcus Chiminello reveals how to attract and service high-end buyers.
- Build Your Personal Brand: Learn how to grow your personal brand at an astonishing speed.
- Case Studies: Learn how to replicate these success stories in your own business.
Special guests:
- MARCUS CHIMINELLO: He is widely recognised as one of Australia’s leading agents. Marcus specialises in selling prestige homes and luxury developments with an average sale price of $5m in VIC
- MEAGAN MUIR: She is one of the standouts at AREC 2024. Meagan runs a high-volume business selling over 100 properties a year in QLD
- Co-Host: SETH WATTS: The Real Estate AI Guy
This webinar is sponsored by CampaignAgent
Pretty excited today because one of the favorite subjects that I like talking about is making the shift of being the one that gets prospected versus being the prospector all the time. Gavin Rubin said it so eloquently at a conference. He goes sooner or later. You want people to be calling you and they're chasing you, they're prospecting you right, and it's just the dynamics of the relationship changes. We have two amazing people, two different price points, two different parts of the world and as a co-pilot I've got Seth Watts from Campaign Agent who, as you all know, now Campaign is part of the realestatecom family. But Seth Watts could easily be Australia's second best real estate trainer.
Speaker 2:That's a welcome indeed, tom. I appreciate it. And, tom, we have a burden of responsibility on our shoulders today because we have two of the most amazing VPA strategists, salespeople, agents on the call, and you and I have to make sure we are getting as much value for this fantastic audience from these two amazing people. We've got a big day ahead of us.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent, because we actually know that if we ask them some good questions and shape the conversation towards that, it's going to be extremely useful for our audience Absolutely so. By the way, the last time I spoke to Marcus in an interview I still remember it was the. You were speaking at a conference that I had with John McGrath at Mastery and we Zoomed you in and you'd only recently done a deal. In a short period of time I think it was only in one week you'd sold a $70 million property and an $80 million property, if I'm right, was it done in the same week?
Speaker 3:It was done four days apart. It was a week that we'd like to have at least once a year, that we sold a property for just over 80, which set the Victorian record, which was hush hush. Then we sold another property three, just over 80, which set the Victorian record, which was hush-hush. Then we sold another property three days later, four days later, at 74 and a half million, which was well publicised. So yeah, it was a really good week in real estate. Wouldn't mind, as I said, repeating it on an annual basis.
Speaker 1:Marcus, just roughly, just for context, your average price in real estate that you're selling.
Speaker 3:I'll take it back a step. It's accelerated in the past four or five years from around three and a half to around six and a half. It hasn't been market-driven, it's been intentional.
Speaker 1:Three and a half to six and a half. You know one thing we never really think about, do you know? Our fees have actually gone up a lot of the times, not percentage-wise, but they've gone up because over the last few decades prices have gone up right and if you think about it, you look back and say, shit, prices have gone up 30%. Say, how's your pay packet right, that's life, megan. What's your average price?
Speaker 4:It'd sit around kind of $1.4 to $1.6 million $1.4 to $1.6.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you're a high-volume agent with a lower price point compared to Marcus, but in Brisbane you're not considered at the lower end of the market. You're considered at a reasonable price level. At the lower end of the market, you're considered at a reasonable price level. And, seth, you also gave me some very good background. Both these organisations both Place and Marshall White they're pinnacle organisations In both their markets. Yeah, in both their markets. And you did say to me that one of the things that you're going to tap into because we're going to do this as a joint interview with our two panellists is that the Marshall White social digital marketing campaigns and the way they go about it is up there with the best in the country.
Speaker 2:No, it's next level. These guys are thinking deeply, strategically about it and you know, I'm sure Marcus has got some stuff he can't share with us, but I think we're all fascinated to hear what he can share. And Tom, let's be honest, let's say the same thing about Place. You sit down with Gareth over at Place and Megan your team deeply strategic about how they're thinking about today. They're thinking about the future and how to bridge the gap between the two. It's pretty impressive.
Speaker 1:So can I? I'm going to ask a question, then Seth will jump in, I'll jump in. We'll just go with the flow. Describe to both of you. We'll start with you, marcus. Describe at a listing presentation when you're there and they're a seller. I mean, I know we go to listing presentations. Sometimes they're price updates. They're just getting an idea of the market. They're a seller and we're talking about the real business end. At what point do you start talking about the marketing campaign, if there is going to be a marketing campaign, because I also know there is a cohort of properties that you do not. You know, $70 million property might not have been a marketing campaign. It was a phone call to someone you know. Correct, correct.
Speaker 3:A lot of that discussion around specifics with marketing and I never really go to a client with a line-by-line analysis of what it's going to cost them to market a property, because otherwise you just get caught up in this debate over $10 and $20 between their board versus your board. I have a holistic view on marketing but I always preface it by saying, first and foremost, I do want to have the business secured before getting into detail of marketing, because I think that's where you can actually shoot yourself in the foot Secure the business on the terms that perhaps might be the vendor's preference and then really drill into marketing. After the fact, you can only control something when you have control. I normally will generalize about what you can do with marketing and talk about that most costs are very similar between agency to agency. There might be a variance of a dollar or two here, but you've got to look at their multifaceted marketing campaigns. You've got digital, you have got print, you've got social and you've got editorial and there are a raft of other little things around, but they're the quadrant of four. I said you need those four quadrants really working effectively for you to optimize the exposure for your home, to give us the ingredients to create competitive tension for you or the right outcome.
Speaker 3:But I always ask a vendor when they talk about marketing. I ask them that how many times do they intend on trying to sell their home? And the answer is usually once. They're not trying to do it twice or a third time. Okay, if you are going to do it once, let's do it the best and optimal way on a marketing perspective. And there's so much, mr and Mrs Vendor, that we can go through on how to enhance your level of visibility to the right people Once you've elected to decide which agent you think can represent you best and if that's me, I'd like to then dedicate just a meeting to how we're going to market the hunt. So try to defer it and then really talk about it then, because otherwise beforehand you're going line for line. If you have to then effectively control the business and say, look, we can do all that, mr and Mrs Vendor, for you, I'm not necessarily saying it's the best thing for you. Perhaps we touch on that again later down the path.
Speaker 2:So sometimes you need to park and isolate and return back to VPA Tom. There is so much to unpack in that I mean we heard tactics, strategy, frameworks, models. You know so many questions around that.
Speaker 1:But Tom, how do you even unpack that? Look, Seth, I've got to say to you, I have seen so many people not just in vendor paid advertising blow a sale on any kind of product. I see it when I'm a customer buying a product and I think they spoke too much. They should have stopped at that point, because at some point it can become confusing. And then it becomes confusing and you want more detail. Detail means I'm not ready to make a decision. What Marcus is saying is make it easy for the client to say yes in steps along the way, right. Don't sort of leave them there thinking, oh okay, so Marcus's marketing campaigns were this let's compare this marketing campaign with that. He said something beautiful there, seth. He said I want you to make sure that you're picking the best real estate agent. Now, hopefully that's me, and if that's me, we then work and take the next steps, or what he says. I love that because I think that you can very easy blow yourself out of the listing because you said something wrong in the marketing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I love Tom. Did you see how he asked the question how many times do you intend to sell your house? So he's setting that vendor up to make the best choices and invest the right amount of money in advance, before he meets them a couple of days later or a day later to talk about that marketing strategy. So he's preconditioning that vendor to already get into a mindset about investment, not cost.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's touch on that very briefly. That is a very good point, because I'm going to be using that line and I know what's going to happen. It's going to look like I came up with it because I'm the one that bought over online. I'm the king plagiarist that line. How many times do you intend to try to sell your home? Clever, isn't it? Imagine going to a doctor and the doctor says you know what, like I know, you've got this life-threatening illness. What I'll do is oh, actually, I'll use another. That's too sensitive, I'll use another. It is sensitive, sensitive. I'm about to go. I'm going to go travelling and I'm going to go China, like Susan is, she's going tonight to China At 9.30,.
Speaker 1:I have a travel agent that says to me listen, there's this airline here called uh, bonanza xy said, and they've got a deal at the moment at 595 that you can fly business class to china. Uh, and look it's. I know it's a new airline, I know that. You know they're there. But the good news is they have got a guarantee if the plane doesn't get there, right, you get your money back. I don't want my money back, I want to be alive, right? That's the point, you know, and I remember with the genman system, I had a genman competitor.
Speaker 1:They always used to say when I'd go up against them, they'd say we're letting you know, we're no sale, no charge. And all I used to say to the owners is I want to ask you, do you want to sell your house? And they say yes, well, I said well, that becomes irrelevant because, of course, if you're not going to sell it, there shouldn't be a charge, right? I love that. I love that, seth. Could we ask Megan, because she's sitting quietly, I want to ask you what's your approach to marketing? And look, no one's got a monopoly on the truth. Different states, different price points, all that. What's your approach, megan?
Speaker 4:Yeah, definitely. I think first and foremost I established if they've sold a property before and what do they spend on the campaign previously. So I think sometimes we kind of go into it thinking that potentially it's their first time selling and you find that they've sold kind of five investment properties, what's kind of worked well, what didn't work previously. So I always try to establish you know how much they actually across. You know what they need to spend on marketing to get you know, I suppose, the traction they're looking for. So that's probably the first thing. The main thing that I really kind of work towards is working at the price point of the property and then taking in a few options that I think are most popular in the market. So I normally take in a small campaign, a medium campaign and then a larger campaign. So certainly they can be kind of you're building out a campaign that you think could work, but really starting with, I suppose, with the marketing of your property. How would you like to see your property? Do you think it looks better during the day or at night? Do you think we should do a twilight photo shoot or a day shoot? So you're really getting into the detail there and you're almost building it out and they're kind of, I suppose, helping you build the campaign because you work out pretty quickly.
Speaker 4:Some people love a photo board and some people go, oh, we just don't think they're great. So if they love a photo board, well then I use that to pitch with that, because I go, yeah, you know a photo board, you know. So you're almost working with the client on working at A. You know, have they thought about marketing? Are they kind of, are they aware of what it is? And then, further to that, really offering some campaigns that could work for them. But I try to get them really involved in it. So, you know, what do you? You know I sometimes, you know, do you think that when you go online, you know they're really large ads, there's medium ads and there's small ads. You know, we want to get you the most exposure. So that's probably how I tackle the marketing side of things.
Speaker 1:So you're trying to. You're sussing out their values. I'm going to hand over, seth. They're both. Both these individuals and organisations are clients. By the way, those that are just joining in now, this is a webinar with Marcus Ciminello and Megan Muir Place and Marshall White, together with Seth Swartz from Campaign Agent. Both these clients are clients of Campaign Agent, aren't they, seth?
Speaker 2:No, and fantastic ones, and I've got so many questions for Megan just around that, right, megan. So can I ask a couple of things, right? So firstly, marcus and this is like the great divide in BPA sales, right, and Marcus is firmly in the camp of I'm going to separate the listing conversation and the marketing conversation and create space where I can really focus on each of them. Megan, you are doing, you're a volume agent, you're a kick and butt, but are you combining those into the listing presentation or are you separating them, like Marcus?
Speaker 4:Actually I've taken a lot from Marcus. Just listening now, to be honest, I think it's great to really talk around, I suppose, securing the listing, and then look at the marketing. So even for me I've taken some really good points. So thank you, marcus. I think the biggest thing for me is that I try to, I suppose, distinguish a difference between the two, but certainly not to the level that Marcus does.
Speaker 4:Predominantly, most of the living rooms that I sit in, you know they've probably got some level of understanding of, I suppose, the marketing they've seen out there and you know seeing the marketing they've done in the marketplace. So I'll normally kind of play to that when I'm in the listing. You know when you're doing that. But I think the biggest thing for me is trying to build something that does work. And to Marcus's point, I think you've got to work out. You know, are they really like? Some people love social media, some people go oh no, no, no, that's not our thing, you know, and you obviously you're trying to get the best campaign for them. But I think you've also got to work with what your client sees as good value as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Seth, I will say this a really good question that you can ask to actually touch on what Megan has said is to actually say to a client while you're at the listing presentation. I'm curious when you're looking at real estate at the moment, where do you seem to look at the most? Do you look at print? Are you looking at REA, Are you looking on social? And you just shut up and you let them talk, because often you'll find they're going to be attracted to what they're doing. That's the way people are. So it's a very, very good question. Back to you, Seth.
Speaker 2:Great.
Speaker 1:So Megan.
Speaker 2:I have noticed something distinct about your VPA and you have done a great job in your practice of including styling as part of marketing. So I've noticed that you are really good at getting $12,000, $14,000 from a vendor and you're not just treating VPA as an exercise in print and online and digital. You're thinking really broadly about that. So I'm first going to ask you the question about styling as a function of marketing and then, marcus, I actually want to hear at the high end, your perspective on that, because, because these are this is where the markets are very different. So can I start with you, megan, about and this audience must know about tactic strategy. How are you selling it? How are you getting people to invest? You know, what are you doing to actually close that sale?
Speaker 4:I think the biggest thing for me is really talking around. Styling for me is about presenting your property to the best level that it can. So sometimes they're really talking around, you know, I suppose, with presentation of the property. Have you thought about you know I suppose we're going to talk about kind of decluttering of rooms and things but have we thought about maybe putting in some furniture, whether it be partial or a full styling, because sometimes my clients are planning on vacating completely and then we talk about vacant property versus a style property.
Speaker 4:For me it's just not about the visual online. It's actually about when they walk through the home. They're getting that feel I always talk about. Stylists will bring in a 2024 feel to the property, so you know they'll make your beds look amazing, as if you're walking into pillow talk or you're. You know you are it's. You know it's one of those things.
Speaker 4:For me it's actually around the photos looking amazing. And, to Marcus's point, you know you get one chance to sell your property, so we want that visual, the photos, to look incredible. We want, you know you get one chance to sell your property, so we want that visual, the photos, to look incredible. We want you know the walkthrough to feel amazing, to minimise time on market we can all agree that you know, doing open homes, we want to kind of minimise as many as we can.
Speaker 4:But for me it's actually it is around talking about the styling, then talking about the photos, then talking about the video and that whole package coming together. And for me, you know you don't want to get your photos done at launch to the market. Four weeks later we're putting styling in, then you're changing photos, like you really want to do that from the kind of the moment and create that emotion. We're visual. Everything is, you know very much, you know online. We've got to get them there and then when they're there, we've got to sell it to them. So the better it feels, the more fresh it feels. You know I always talk around. You know when you go to a display home they furnish them for a reason. No one lives like that but we've got to sell the fact that the property feels great when you walk through.
Speaker 2:That's great.
Speaker 3:Marcus, can we transition to the $60 million market Because you've got the most discerning buyers, arguably in the world? How do you think about this? Probably similar to what Megan has touched on, that we encourage our clients to transition their home from a lived-in home to a stage-to-sell home and we always use that language because we want the home to be aspirational for the person who walks through. They're not looking to take a sideways movement in their life or downgrade, they're looking to always continually upgrade. So when we're taking a buyer through the home, they want to look in that living room and aspire that this is perfection and if they live there, that's what they're going to inherit. Well, they open the cupboards and go, geez, this place is so neat. If we lived here we're going to be really neat and we know after 48 hours the place is going to look exactly like their previous home.
Speaker 3:But I think one thing on a marketing perspective is I think every campaign or every client wants to feel as though you can articulate to them the strategy of what you're doing and their marketing campaign has been crafted just for their property, based on the audience we need to appeal to. They might look exactly the same whether you're selling something for $800,000, $1.5 million or $5 million, but you need to make the client feel and understand the value and the strategy of target marketing and that's what we do with everything and whether it's the same thing we're rolling out, but it's the way it's the delivery of the marketing campaign will get them to buy into the understanding of it. If you can do that, vpa is really, really easy and we work back and talk about the likely buyer audience for you. What are the tools that we require in your marketing campaign to ensure that they are going to connect, engage, inquire and come to the property and let us do what we do best once we've got them.
Speaker 3:Mr and Mrs Bu by, okay, we're going to have some downsizes, but I think, given so, mr and Mrs Vendor, we're going to have some downsizes going to be considering this, given the single level of nature, but given the proximity to some of the local schools, we are going to get some upsizes, some younger couples that will be stepping into this with young children. So we're really bookend of the market. So, based on previous campaigns but based on evidence and we're always using case studies and evidence to say look, this success campaign that you've demonstrated, utilize these tools to attract this audience, but also to attract this audience. So these are the tools that we require. They need a deep understanding of value rather than cost, to get them to market properties the way we know they should be marketed.
Speaker 2:That's fascinating, right? Because what I heard Marcus just say who, let's be honest, is selling $30,000 marketing campaigns all day, every other week is what I just heard is that it doesn't matter whether you're selling a $30,000 campaign or a $4,000 campaign. The message is identical. Is that? Why have I picked these 10 things, and how are these going to help us create that competition and that connection with the buyers that we've identified as the opportunity?
Speaker 1:I mean that's insightful Tom.
Speaker 1:It is, and I've got to say he's also said, seth, towards the end the conversation's got to be about value, not about cost. You've got to show more, you've got to do more, you've got to give more. You've got to show more, you've got to do more, you've got to give more, you've got to move away from being a commodity and you've got to be a value-added provider. I'm going to share my screen for one moment, seth, yep, yep, I want to actually show, uh, this slide here, a very important slide if you really think about what we're doing in real estate.
Speaker 2:Seth. Can you say that I can see a San Pellegrino Tom and a glass of water?
Speaker 1:So, if you really think about it, on the right-hand side is odorless liquid called water. Walked into Crown and I said you know I'm at Nobu. And I said and I'll also get a glass of water, tap water, please, just tap water. Thank you, tap water is going to come back at no charge. It'll be free, free. However, if I actually ask no, I'll get a bottle of Pellegrino still water, pellegrino, but please At Nobu. What do you asked no, I'll get a bottle of Pellegrino still water, pellegrino, butt, please At Nobu. What do you reckon, seth, $15 for that? I was going to say $13.
Speaker 2:In Sydney it would be $15.
Speaker 1:Yeah, $15. Okay, so one's got a brand, one's got a label, one has improved perceived value. If you really think about what we're doing in front of a vendor, we're explaining to them we want to take this and make it stand out more than the other 17 homes that are on the market in Toorak or in West End or wherever you're selling, what we're doing is improving the perceived value. And geez, I just actually just remembered something. I couldn't help it. I went and interviewed Marcus at his office once with this little blogger, seth. I had this little blogger that I'd bought for a 90. Do you remember it?
Speaker 3:What is it? It was where I'm sitting right now was actually where it happened.
Speaker 1:Right, I was sitting there and I was interviewing him and he had a newspaper there Unfortunately it was the opposition at the time, the Melbourne Weekly Review and he had a beautiful way of the way he used to sell it because he had it there. And he said oh, mate, what I do is I get the old paper from four weeks ago, right, and what I do is I write out. Do you remember, marcus, when you told me the story? He writes out these people, how much they invested in marketing, and then when he goes to a listing presentation, he brings it along and he says I want to show you these homes. They were on the market last month. This is their marketing campaign. This is the house there.
Speaker 1:They were a little bit apprehensive about, you know, pulling the trigger and doing a big marketing campaign. Let me tell you the story about this property. They spent 15 grand. The reserve was two. It sold for 2.4. So he's telling this value story. So when you come to the cost, people are thinking man, but we're going to get that result. Don't ever forget everyone story, sell facts, tell. Be good at telling a story, you know. But Seth back over to you again.
Speaker 2:Right, tom, that theme of stories and social proof, when we do these interviews with these high performers, just comes up time and time and time again. Okay, tom, I want to get to some questions. I've got as a bit of a computer guy. You and I spoke about this before and we wanted to talk about digital. You know, we saw all of us, everybody on this call, everybody in Australia saw this radical experimentation in COVID.
Speaker 1:We're all virtual agents.
Speaker 2:all of a sudden, we're all doing everything remotely and I want to find out from these guys. You know what has stuck. So if we were doing virtual inspections, auctions and everything else, two, three years ago we went virtual tours. Everything was virtual. I'm seeing some of that pulling back, but I don't know. So I want to hear from let's start with Megan, then we'll go to Marcus. What is the state of digital Big picture? For a second, what role is it playing? What's working, what isn't working, what's most importantly selling to the vendors and what isn't? So, Megan, why don't you start us off?
Speaker 4:I think the main thing is that I'm finding in the digital space is definitely so. I mean, online videos obviously tell the story. So I think, if you go back to telling a story, I think they're still really relevant today because people like watching that the whole way through. It is different than still photos and then obviously, using them on the social media platform as well. For us is the digital offer forms. So you know, it's interesting used to kind of sign contracts face to face all the time.
Speaker 4:So for us, definitely moving the buyer from inspection through to digital offers, which is awesome because it means that we can move quicker and then the contracts can be done a lot quicker. So that's probably the main thing that I find is really the digital let's call it the digital listing, presentation, the after open home is all digital. So we don't. We used to have like a lot of paper. You know paperwork at open homes. Here's a copy of you know brochures. All of that it's all digital. So we do have like a brochure people can take, because there are people that still like to take that, but everything is literally downloadable, clickable, very easy to navigate. So that's probably the main thing and we do a video tour of every property, quite detailed for buyers that are interstate, and we send them via WhatsApp. So they're definitely still something that we've kept from them.
Speaker 2:Well, tom, that is so interesting to me. When I started Campaign Agent, we sat down with the head of Visa, like the credit card company, right, and we asked for some advice. And he gave us one piece of advice and he said reduce friction. I said what the hell does reduce friction mean? He said, if you make small changes to make something easier to buy, you will see radically improved outcomes. And what I just heard from Megan is that she's following that same advice. Right, she's using digital tools to reduce friction. Let's make it easier for buyers to make an offer, let's make it easier to get a contract, let's make it easier to get the outcome. And I love to hear that because, megan, that's exactly what my business has thrived on is how do we make it as easy as possible to buy something? Right, and it has radical benefits.
Speaker 4:It's really exciting and even last night, like I mean here's a live example we had a property we're closing at a top offer. The buyer kind of came into it late in the piece this is a really cool example sent everything digitally to the buyer, had done all of her due diligence before she came through, walked through the property last night five minutes before the top offer closes. Seriously happened last night. She sent the expression of interest form via our platform, which is a digital link to make an offer, Literally one minute before closing. We had a contract to her, she'd signed it, came back to us and we presented it as part of the top offer closing process. And the gold out of all of this is she successfully bought the property.
Speaker 2:I'm going to make sure that's marketing, but it's damn awesome.
Speaker 1:My accountant said to me a week ago he goes, mate, do you spend a fortune on Apple, do you spend a fortune on Amazon Prime? And then I go, you reckon and he goes, yeah, and then he goes. Why is that? And I said, I just think that they make it really easy to spend money with them. They just make it really easy to press that button right, like I don't have to actually get into my car, drive, go there, have to make, I just press the button. I think the person that makes it easier for people to say yes gets more business.
Speaker 2:End of story. Yeah, I think, and Megan just absolutely summarised that beautifully. Marcus, I'm going to throw the ball into your court. So same question again digital what's stuck, what hasn't? What's working, what can you sell? How is that transforming? And I'm really interested in maybe the Chinese piece, because you guys do that very well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, look, we, unlike Megan, we spent more than a few minutes in lockdown over COVID. We had to adapt for far, far longer down here as a Melvernian. And look, I think ease of service and speed of service is the two things that have really come out of it, because you're right, is the two things that have really come out of it because you're right. The ability to sign contracts, send contracts, sign authorities all from a touch of a button, instantaneously, has just transformed that and I think we've become more productive because we're not spending time driving 30 minutes there, sitting down 30 minutes, driving another 30 minutes. We are just becoming. It's great leverage for us. So that has stuck and that will continue.
Speaker 3:There were things that I think momentarily were beneficial, that are no longer relevant, like 3D tours. 3d tours I think a buyer would prefer to have a FaceTime call and walk and ask questions and go back to that room and tell me this and walk back out to the street. They want that level of intimacy if they are buying sight unseen. It proved to be beneficial for a time, but I think that has been phased out, probably following on from what Megan raised before, video is paramount. Now it really is. It just gives everyone a different perspective of the property rather than stills. It's far more immersive and social. I think social has gone to another level and this might be me being a late adopter to social, but the amount of inquiry I'm getting from really qualified people in a micro market if I would say that it's, the people will follow you because they don't want to miss an opportunity, thinking that it might only be on social media, and that happens frequently. That's a real powerful selling tool and advantage for us in the market as individuals.
Speaker 2:Marcus, can you tease that out a bit, because your black book is legendary in this industry and it's about the most valuable asset in Australian real estate.
Speaker 3:But how are you using social, specifically, I don't delve into my personal life on socials. It's all at a professional level and the reason I do that is it works for some people and it's got to be relative to your market. I just want people to gravitate to me based on my outcomes and my professionalism, not what I do on the weekends or what my kids are doing. But it has its place in certain marketplaces. I use an outside third-party source that I know very well and know the way I want my brand position in the marketplace. So, once again, there are things that I won't put on social because it's not in alignment with my brand, the Marcus Chiminello brand. I get requests all the time, even from colleagues say can I please put this on? Vendors ask I say look, no, sorry, it doesn't represent my brand.
Speaker 3:I'm very protective of my brand and I always use the car sales lot analogy that you know. If I'm selling Porsches, I'm selling Porsches. I don't drop the occasional Toyota in the front. Nothing wrong with that about driving a Toyota, but it's not coming on my car lot. So I use it strategically, once again, to make sure that my brand is always continually strengthened and elevated in the market. So it's a tool I use, with some social edits that we use, some obviously just stories and also posts, the combination of all those things and off-market opportunities too, that's where I seem to get probably the most amount of engagement, particularly in that broadly that five to 20 range. I know it's a very broad range, but everyone's crying out for those off-market opportunities that no one knows about.
Speaker 1:Can I ask, marcus, you didn't mention LinkedIn before we came on air. When you talk social and I'm mindful of your demographic I know Gav said to me Gav goes mate. I sort of go everywhere because he goes, I think to myself some people watch Channel 10, some people watch Channel 9, some people watch ABC, some people are on Fox Sports. So I just think that it's safer to try and be on all platforms. What's your position?
Speaker 3:As long as this remains between the four of us and no one else, okay, um, I, I, I use all platforms, but I don't. Um, I have no idea. When I mentioned to seth before that, he had a great everyone on this view, this viewing of this today, should look at seth's um profile photo on linkedin. It's very impressive. Um, oh, I got an alert today from LinkedIn. I don't use LinkedIn. The girl who looks after my socials does all my LinkedIn. So I do use all platforms, but I'm only personally active on one of those, being Instagram. But they're out there, they're positioning me, they're promoting me, or she is based on if it is me, so to speak.
Speaker 2:Tom we hear a lot about Instagram. It's another thing that constantly comes back from top performers is that that is their platform of choice, whether it's. I think it's both effective and comfortable. But I just I would highlight how important you know, success leaves clues and we just hear about Instagram on most of these calls. I think it's as the best place to capture leads and to engage buyers. I think Instagram's as the best place to capture leads and to engage buyers.
Speaker 1:I think Instagram's got the best of both worlds. They've now adjusted very well in response to TikTok, which used vertical video, and they've gone really hard on vertical video and you can see that in the results of the searches, because if you were to put a video up as a reel or put a video up as a post, what will happen on Instagram? Reels get so much more engagement and that was simply a response to TikTok that came in and was migrating a lot of the users. But the big advantage, I think Seth of Instagram is that, apart from being vertical video with their reels, it allows you to build a tribe. That's got your vibe. It allows to build a group of community that, hey, I'm in Marcus's corner, I relate to that guy, I watch what he does, whereas on, say, tiktok, they're like backpackers.
Speaker 1:You'll see one post that will get a million views and they're all. They're like backpackers. You'll see one post that'll get a million views and they're gone, never to be seen again, right? You don't have an opportunity to build a tribe, right? A group that says I'm in Marcus's church, I'm in that community or organization, right? So I think that's what it is and you know increasingly, I mean, tiktok's been good for social media because it's actually forced the other platforms, including YouTube, which is owned by Google, to actually go into vertical video and they do shorts. Now you know, if you notice they do the shorts the very you know short videos quick, fast. But yeah, I love, megan, your platforms that you seem to mostly engage in. Would that be Insta?
Speaker 4:Definitely Instagram. Yeah, I just find it very user-friendly. I just find most of my followers are on there. I mean, I'm not a huge, I'm getting into that space, but yeah, instagram's definitely the platform that I use.
Speaker 1:Okay, by the way, we'll make sure in the chat box that we will actually put the URL, susan, if you're in the back there, if you don't mind, in the chat box and on social media, because this webinar is presented to you by Campaign Agent and, of course, like any organisation, we're getting awareness. We're trying to make it easy for you to say yes and we're going to make it easy for you by putting that link up there. Seth, back to you, you had some really good questions that I read before.
Speaker 2:Well you know I got a bit excited. I was doing a bit of research on these two and, megan, I've got a question for you because and this is a campaign agent question, but it was pretty amazing looking at some of your stats Because, firstly, for any of you Melbournians and Sydneysiders who have a prejudice against Brisbane as being the third city in Australia, I just want to lay it down now that Brisbane is the second highest prices of property in Australia and secondly, that market has gone from $3,000 average VPA country town stuff to $5,000, $6,000 and $7,000., it's become a serious player in this country.
Speaker 1:Megan you should send. You should find out Dictator Dan's birthday and send him a present. All Queenslanders should be sending him a present once a year on his birthday.
Speaker 2:Melbournians are the stick and razor blades in the cake. I got it out of the way.
Speaker 1:Someone said to me mate, what's he done to you, mate? I said he hasn't done anything to me. I don't live there, right, but anyway, anyway, anyway.
Speaker 2:But listen, megan is absolutely on the cutting edge of this right. She's knocking out $6,000 campaigns, $12,000 campaigns, like they're nothing else. And, megan, I've got a question for you, because one of the things about your business is that when you're selling VPA and you're allowing people to pay later, they're spending almost six grand, and when they're paying up front, they're spending like half that, like three and a half. Marcus is banging out $30,000 campaigns on credit cards, but you have got this huge difference and I'm really interested in why are people spending so much more on the pay later and what's the driver of all of that?
Speaker 4:The biggest thing for me is making it easier upfront. So I think that when I'm sitting with a client, obviously there's a lot of costs for them to navigate when they are selling and then buying or whatever their kind of next steps are. So really for me is actually working with them and saying, look, you know, let's look at what is best for your property. So the biggest thing for me is making sure that we're not compromising on the level of marketing we're putting to the market, we're not pulling back on things. We're going the other way, we're actually going to go all out. You know, and I am a big believer you get one chance to sell your property and you get one chance to put that footprint to the market and people will see it for the first time. So for me it's making sure we don't leave a stone unturned, making sure that we are really hitting off every piece of that marking that should be there. And then I think the way that I find it easier for clients to say, look, we've got two options we can pay up front or we can actually pay it later and for clients to say, look, we've got two options we can pay up front or we can actually pay it later. And what we find.
Speaker 4:A lot of our clients find it easy to pay it later because just one bill at the end and we're not compromising on anything up front. You know we don't want to go to the market and go, oh, we went for an ad that was a little bit smaller, or we didn't, kind of, you know, go that signboard, or we didn't go those beautiful twilight photos when we knew we should have, because for me it's actually around selling that part of it. So, making sure that it's an easy way to get your property to the market, make it look incredible, we just take it out at the end One bill. So that's the way that I've found works really well. And it comes back to, like you said before, making it easier for the client. And that's what I'm there to do simplify the process for them.
Speaker 2:Tom, this is a masterclass. Like how many great lines of scripts came out of that conversation. By the way, I love the fact that we will not compromise Like what a great line. But we are speaking to a master of reducing friction of the transaction, like you know what took us at Campanagent many years?
Speaker 1:Megan's just nailed this every time. Thank you, an extraordinary listen, I mean. I knew she was an extraordinary real estate agent well before Eric. I mean, how many deals do you do a year, megan? We'll write just over 100 this year 100 deals, you know, at around $1.5 million. It's good money there, megan. Good stuff, thank you.
Speaker 4:Save it, don't spend it all.
Speaker 1:I like the sound of Marcus's transactions, though what you want is your volume with his price point. That's what you want your volume with his price point, that's what enforces my business.
Speaker 3:That's what you want, that's what you want.
Speaker 1:Can I just ask, and this is to both of you, you both work for great organisations and both organisations have hundreds of salespeople. Yet the reality is that some people in the same state that you're in, in the same state that you're in in the same company that you're in, some do significantly better than others in the whole marketing game. Some agents just seem to have this ability to come back with 15 grand Other real estate agents seem. You see them. Oh, I've got one on market. There's no marketing attached to that one. I've got four off market. I've got one that's about 3,000 kilometres away. It's just sitting there, right, it's all hard for them, right. But then you've got others that are going in. They've got momentum and they seem to get listings that give them more listings and they have this momentum that's going around.
Speaker 1:What do you think are the secrets and what do you reckon you're good at? That marketing piece, what are the secrets of good in VPA? Because you must see people in the offices that you think to yourself man, they listed that and they got no marketing attached to it. Or they've come back with a little postage campaign, right, it's a bit like what you're saying, that they've got a Porsche, kay-ann sitting in a Hyunda ideal. Nothing wrong with Hyundas, by the way. Again, I've got to say that in case In case you offend someone.
Speaker 1:Some people are very good at that. And one guy said to me Tom, you don't realise, hyunda built Genesis. Have you seen Genesis? I haven't seen Genesis. No, anyway, what's the secret guys? Megan, do you want the?
Speaker 3:floor Megan secret guys. What's the secret, megan? Do you want the floor, megan, or do you want me?
Speaker 1:to go. You go first.
Speaker 3:Oh, wow, look at that. All right, find some more time, correct, correct. Often I do encourage people to perhaps focus a little bit more time and skill into getting comfortable with selling marketing and we shouldn't really be selling, because we should be a trusted advisor and I think that's always real estate utopia and I do get thrown back in my face all the time. Yeah, but yeah, but you sell these properties, marcus, you do this. The reason why I'm selling these properties today is I have not changed my behaviors for 15 years. So 15 years ago, when my average sale price was $800,000 and I got a property that presented really well and it could be worth 800, it could be worth 1.5 until you actually inquired, I encouraged my vendors and I got really good in selling marketing. The reason I did is because I actually believed in it. I noticeably saw the differences in inquiries and quality of people and potential sellers who saw these ads and came through and it made a meaningful difference to my personal business and then it just because it was working, I continued to do it. So I think it is consistency into the commitment to do it and I think you need the belief in VPA because it does work.
Speaker 3:Look, don't get me wrong. There are so many ways you can superfluously spend money on marketing campaigns and get zero return on it and get a vendor a bit aggrieved with that investment. But if you're using success continually and a formula that works consistently over time and presenting that to your client and I often use the analogy I know before you said it's a little bit sensitive Mr and Mrs Vendor, if you're sitting with your GP or your surgeon and they're demonstrating to you this is what you should be doing based on the testing that you've done. This is the diagnosis and this is what we need to do. You would say yes, yes, yes, and you would follow that journey. You wouldn't make any shortcuts in between or look at an alternative. This is the success. This is as we talk about. Success leaves clues. This is what people have consistently done to get the right outcome.
Speaker 3:So I always put it down to one belief, and you've got to believe it with conviction. You can't be contrived and sell something you don't believe in. You have to understand the idiosyncrasies of marketing and be able to articulate that really well to a vendor. That has had a profound impact on my career, because there are a lot of people that at the same time, were selling $800,000 properties when I was 15 years ago. Their every sale price is probably sitting at 1.8 now and that's naturally occurred.
Speaker 3:As you mentioned before, tom, a lot of people have risen with the market and their fees have risen, but they actually haven't improved their performance. It's because I made a real dedication to ensuring that when I took a client's property to market, I had the absolute understanding and belief that it was the best thing for them, because it did two things it positioned their property above the sea of sameness of everyone else. It positioned my personal brand out in the market like this is the guy who's selling all the good property. And that just continually, that momentum just built because of my commitment to it continually.
Speaker 1:That momentum just built because of my commitment to it. I still remember clearly the conversation I had at that day that I was at your office, or it might have. I mean, we've done a few. It might have been subsequent, but I remember, marcus, it was a deliberate, it was not an accident, it was intentionally done. Where you said I can't be everything to everyone. I've got to stand for something, and that meant to make the decision that you couldn't have your name confusing the market on the one hand at the time, having the $10 million property or the $5 million property, and then also having the $750,000 one better, right, it was confusing people. So you actually, in the short term, it might have cost you a bit of money, because what you did is you started splitting the fee with other agents. They're saying handle that, because I just want to be seen, as this is who he is, this is what he stands for. He's the go-to person for luxury property in Australia. Correct, correct, very intentional.
Speaker 2:Do you know what? That was a huge insight, because there are a lot of people on this call and who are going to watch this video, who look at Marcus and see him as the goal, what he has accomplished, and what I just heard is that Marcus is treating marketing almost like compound interest. I mean we just heard is that Marcus is treating marketing almost like compound interest. I mean we just heard that the decisions he made seven, eight, nine years ago whatever it was when he's selling 800,000, those decisions were purposeful and the compounded benefit of the marketing choices he made 10 years ago have led to where he is today. And I find that concept of compound interest or compound marketing the decisions we make on every single listing are going to lead to success, to be really powerful Ties in beautifully with that attraction agent strategy. We often talk about Tom and I think we've just watched a master at work explaining how he did it. That was great. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, Megan, I think we're over to you.
Speaker 4:So I think, definitely you've got to have belief in it. So there's definitely I mean, you know I always talk around. You know agents have buyers. That's what we're there to do, like, I think, any agent that says I've got buyers, well, of course you do Respectfully, you're doing open homes, you're doing all those things, you're meeting buyers. That's what we're meant to do. So I think I always talk around. There's the pre-market sale, and the pre-market sale is all the buyers that I've got that are there. That, yes, of course I can bring you an offer, we can sell the property.
Speaker 4:But what we want to do is you get one chance to sell your asset and it is probably one of the most expensive items that you own and what we don't want to do is just sell it to buyers that we know. We want to make sure that the buyers we know are then in competition with buyers that I suppose let's call it. You can have passive buyers, really active buyers. We want to make sure that the really active buyers in the marketplace, when we launch online, are competing with the buyers that have been looking. So we want 100% of the market to see your property line are competing with the buyers that have been looking. So we want 100% of the market to see your property. So it's actually about creating competition because I think as an agent we can present you an offer. We can do pre-market open homes, we can do all of those things.
Speaker 4:But for me, marketing gives you a full assurance that when we present you offers, that we have gone and we have found every buyer, or as many buyers as we can, the farthest reach that we can to give you every chance that we are sitting there and we're looking at these offers, we've got for you that we have exhausted every last dollar from the market and for me that's really important.
Speaker 4:You know, I think that getting the best price for your house, you know marketing assures that because we know that. You know every buyer has seen your for sale board, every buyer has seen your ad online, every buyer in the social platform wherever we put in your property, which is extensive because it comes back to how we, you know, pitch at the start that we are casting the net so wide that when we come and present those offers to you that we are absolutely assured we've got every last dollar. I can sell it either way. I can sell it off market, I can sell it pre-market, whichever way you want to phrase that or we can go to the market. All know we did absolutely everything and when I present you that offer at the end we know or offers at the end we know that we've done everything we can to get this price. That's probably the way that I think marketing for me is really important.
Speaker 1:Yeah the way that I think marketing for me is really important. It would be, seth, as we come towards this end of this wonderful vendor-paid masterclass, it would be remiss of me as a trainer not to share with you some of the things that real estate agents say to me, that they say as lines at that living room, whether it's before they sign it up or after. That gets them into the conversation. Some people refer to these as scripts, dialogues, but obviously the thing that Marcus said is when you believe in them. I actually don't think they sound like scripts. When you believe in them, they're just basically a faster way of saying something that would take a thousand words and do it in 50 words. You really want to try and tell the truth efficiently. That's what really scripts and dialogues are and, without a doubt, three or four of my most favourites are, well, this question. Mr and Mrs Vendor, in terms of marketing, I'm really curious Would you like me to give you a marketing program that's going to make you happy, or would you like me to give you a marketing program that's going to make you happy, or would you like me to give you a marketing program that's going to get you top dollar? Because they're not the same thing. Another very good question is Mr and Mrs Vendor, are you looking for a house price maximizer or are you looking for a marketing minimizer? Because you can't actually have both. You've got to stand out to win out in this marketplace.
Speaker 1:I often find Seth a really good way to actually get into the conversation about marketing is to say Mr and Mrs Vendor, I'm not sure if this is for you, but the minute you say that they're curious to say but why wouldn't it be for me? And then they sort of engage and then you can move in and discuss it, and sometimes it's using two simple words that research has shown works. It's called most people and the reason why they work is we as human beings want to be like most people. We believe in social proof. Example I go online the other day on Amazon to buy a set of noise reduction headphones and I just noticed that there's 700 that I can pick from. I'm thinking to yourself look, I look at the reviews and then there's that nice red sign on these headphones that says most recommended by Amazon customers. So what do you? Do you pick that? And that says to me makes sense, when you're sitting there at a listing presentation and saying Mr and Mrs Vendor, here are three campaigns. Most of the vendors that seem to get top dollar choose this one. It's an easy way for you to. And, by the way, I don't know why, seth, but a lot of agents tell me they put the one that they believe the best one for them in the middle because people feel safe, I think. Sometimes they feel like I don't want to be too cheap, right, but I don't think I need to go overs, so they feel like it's the nice safe number.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and one final comment before we all leave is this man here and I'm going to bring up the slide is the guy that I think is the architect of vendor-paid advertising, at least for me. Anyway, I'm going to share the screen. It's this guy here. Let's bring him up. He's not a real estate agent, he's actually quite famous. He actually won the Nobel Prize in 1979 for behavioral economics. His name is Daniel Kahneman and he's an academic, very, very smart guy, daniel Kahneman, he studied something quite bizarre. He won a Nobel Prize for behavioral economics on this simple principle People feel more pain losing $1 than pleasure winning $1.
Speaker 1:It's an interesting emotion, right? You'll feel more pain losing something than the pleasure of winning it, which stands to reason that the way that you actually pitch marketing to a vendor should always be focused more towards. We need to do this because I'd hate to leave a million dollars on the table. I'd hate for you to lose a million dollars if there was a buyer out there that just didn't become aware of your property. Right, and that would be far more effective than actually saying let's go and do a $20,000 campaign because we want to get you top dollar. People will do more to avoid pain and that's why nearly every person you meet that has a motor vehicle worth more than $10,000 takes out car insurance every year, regardless of the fact that they haven't had a claim for a decade. They will still take it out simply for the in-case.
Speaker 1:And what we do in vendor paid marketing everyone we're in the business of in-case, in-case I totally get it and you know, seth, I get the concept that the buyout comes from across the road that would have come from the signboard. I get that sometimes that happens, but we're taking out insurance that we don't undersell the biggest asset that most people own and, quite frankly, the way the laws are in Australia, man, it's really expensive not getting top dollar on the family home because it's tax-free. Like you know, if Marcus sells a property and don't get me wrong, he's got all these wealthy people If he sells a property and gets the people you know $2 million more, they've got to earn $4 million at work to get the same material benefit. What do you think it's like for the vendor out in Bankstown that gets an extra you know, $70,000? That for them they've got to work a whole year. It's life-changing. It changes the direction of their life, right? I mean, I know we're not curing AIDS or curing cancer, but you're helping someone send their kids to a private school. You're helping someone actually have a home that all kids get their own bedroom. I love this, I love catching up.
Speaker 1:Today, by the way, everyone, if you're not with campaign agent, like these two people are, because I've got to tell you most real estate vendors I find it's not even the few hundred dollars extra that they're paying and the difference in their campaign. I think most people just like the simplicity of yeah, mate, do it all at the end, don't want to know about it. Man, yeah, mate, do it all at the end, don't want to know about it. Man, just yeah, like yeah, just do it. And that's good news if you're an agent, because in real estate it's hard enough getting a listing versus the other two or three that you're competing against, simply to get rid of the friction, which is what campaign agent has done. And that's why realestatecom loved that business and bought it.
Speaker 2:On that note, I hope we have done justice to two of the most amazing agents in Australia. Marcus, megan, what a fantastic session. I have written down more scripts and ideas than I have in a very long time and I want to say a big thank you to both of you. Happy listening to everybody, great spring, the market's on fire in lots of Australia and looking forward to hearing success stories over the coming months. So thank you all.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, Mark. Thanks, Tom. See you, Megan Bye.